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| Spraying shellac http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=4110 |
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| Author: | Bobc [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:05 pm ] |
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I have my nephews 000 cocobolo guitar in the shop for repairs. The nicely qs side developed a 6" long crack in about the middle of the side. After gluing back together and sanding I sprayed a few coats of Targets WB shellac as a sealer. Dang the stuff looks good. Just wondering if anyone has sprayed shellac for a finish. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:32 am ] |
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I have never srpayed Targets wb shellac but have sprayed a complete finish with 2# cut of shellac and have done it several times using Zinnzer's Seal Coat thin down a bit. It does a very nice job. I think I have some pictures of a couple I will post If I can find them as soon as I get back into the country Monday |
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| Author: | Robbie O'Brien [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:11 am ] |
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Spraying shellac is an excellent method of applying the product. You go through quite a bit more than if you pad it on but you get a quicker build. A two or three pound cut can be sprayed on and then leveled. You can then rub it out to a satin r even buff it to a high gloss. It will rival lacquer or urethane in appearence. Spraying a quick coat of shellac is also an excellent way of sealing your guitar to protect it during the construction process. |
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| Author: | Bobc [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:31 am ] |
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Robbie and Mike what I like about this stuff is that I can clean my gun with water. The stuff looks fantastic. |
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| Author: | BlueSpirit [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:20 am ] |
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After reading bob's last post about his gun, I have pictures in my head of him sitting on top of his zoot supply waiting for some unwary thief to come prowling around in the wee hours of the dark morning. The gun probably had the most wicked looking zoot for a handle grip, and I'll just bet a flag pops out of the end of it that says "No loot, no zoot!"  
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| Author: | mrpbody44 [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:50 pm ] |
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I am a big fan of shellac and french polish finishes. The thin finish just sounds so much better even makes abig difference on an electric. The FYJIMO guitar I did for Billy Gibbons had a black ebonised french polish finish. Way cool sounding guitar. |
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| Author: | Bobc [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:55 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=BlueSpirit] After reading bob's last post about his gun, I have pictures in my head of him sitting on top of his zoot supply waiting for some unwary thief to come prowling around in the wee hours of the dark morning. The gun probably had the most wicked looking zoot for a handle grip, and I'll just bet a flag pops out of the end of it that says "No loot, no zoot!" [/QUOTE]
Doug actually I was referring to my SATA MINI JET 4 HVLP spray gun.
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| Author: | BlueSpirit [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:38 pm ] |
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How does that work for you Bob? I've yet to find a spray gun that liked me. Probably just my bad technique. |
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| Author: | Mario [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:28 pm ] |
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Target's WB shellac is indeed great stuff! I had a quart or two that were getting old, and out of habit, I retired them(finishing is tricky enough without having to guess if your shellac has reached the end of its shelf life). But, instead of tossing them, I finished my spray booth's floor with it. Simply poured it on the floor and spread it about with a squeegy. Dried really quick, and amazingly hard and tuff. Yes Bob, as other's have said, it sprays nice, too. Left to fully cure, it can be sanded and buffed like nitro. Just takes a long time to get to full cure. |
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| Author: | Addam Stark [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:36 pm ] |
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Hey Mario, what Race car is that under your name? |
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| Author: | Bobc [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:57 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=BlueSpirit] How does that work for you Bob? I've yet to find a spray gun that liked me. Probably just my bad technique.[/QUOTE] Great little gun Doug. It works great. |
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| Author: | Mario [ Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:59 am ] |
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car is that under your name That my hot rod! I race in an on-line league, using a simulator, which is a highly modified game. It is so accurate the real drivers do it also as practice, and they also run in weekly league races. We all hook up to a common server at the same time, and practice, qualify, practice, then race, in real-time. Some were even broadcast on radio, complete with sponsors and all(one of which I won in July)! Can't be thinking of guitars and wood -all- the time...<bg> |
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| Author: | Mark Tripp [ Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:15 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Mario] Just takes a long time to get to full cure.[/QUOTE] Mario: How long before this cures fully? -Mark |
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| Author: | Mario [ Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:59 am ] |
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When it's done, it's done. In other words, I dunno <bg> It'll all depend on your climate, etc... I've seen a big difference in sprayed shellac's hardness between month one and month two. |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:00 am ] |
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I spray using the usual siphon feed lacquer gun. Alcohol based, about 1.5# cut. A bit lower pressure than I would use for lacquer. Works fine. I've done the whole finish this way and prefer it for classicals. But I use it for a sanding sealer on all guitars. |
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| Author: | Tim McKnight [ Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:34 am ] |
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I use de-waxed, super blond, shellac flakes in a 1lb cut as a sealer. I have tried to spray it but have not been very successful. The second and third coats will wrinkle the previous coats as it melts the finish. It also puddles on and doesn't flow out when I spray it. I have much better success brushing it. |
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| Author: | Bobc [ Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:25 am ] |
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Tim the Target Coatings WB shellac sprays very good. No wrinkling of successive coats. You ought to give it a try. |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:11 am ] |
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Where can you find the Target Coating WB shellac? What does WB stand for, waterbase? Is it possible? |
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| Author: | Don A [ Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:29 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=laurent] Where can you find the Target Coating WB shellac? What does WB stand for, waterbase? Is it possible?[/QUOTE] Laurent,yes it is water-based shellac. You can get more information and buy it at this link. |
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| Author: | Mario [ Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:43 pm ] |
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I've sprayed alcohol cut shellac without the pitfalls Tim speaks of. Laying it on a bit heavy mayhaps, Tim? It wants to be applied rather lightly and dry. Yes, water based. You can make your own(I have), but it's a finicky recipe. Water, borax, and mild heat(glue pot works perfectly) are needed. Target's is too good to bother with making your own, though.... There -is- something about WB shellac that is different from alcohol cut, but I can't quite put my finger on what. |
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| Author: | Tim McKnight [ Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:25 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=Mario] I've sprayed alcohol cut shellac without the pitfalls Tim speaks of. Laying it on a bit heavy mayhaps, Tim? It wants to be applied rather lightly and dry.[/QUOTE] Yep, I lay it down wet like Urethane and Nitro. I can never feel right about laying down a dry coat of anything. It is just counter intuitive to my pea sized brain. Me-thinks it would not burn in and adhere as well dry ... but I have been wrong before, eh? |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:12 pm ] |
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Tim, wrinkling of the first coat when you apply later coats does suggest that it is too thick. I never get that. I don't try to get a full gloss flow like with lacquer, but I do see it flow on the surface, so I wouldn't call it a dry coat. My suggestion is to cut it more. My hunch is that you are spraying around a 3# cut. If you cut to about 1.5#, you can lay on a thinner coat and still get some flow. I probably am getting less than half the thickness in a shellac coat that I would get with a lacquer coat. |
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| Author: | Mario [ Fri Dec 16, 2005 4:57 pm ] |
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Yeah, shellac can't be sprayed wet over itself like that. Alcohol is not a strong solvent, and it doesn't burn into the previous coat quickly enough. You need to shoot light, dry coats, or add more alky, as Howard suggests. Dry worked for me, 100% burn-in.... t is just counter intuitive to my pea sized brain When we spray a new material, forst thing we need to do is forget everything we already know, and start new. |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:51 am ] |
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The Target Coating stuff looks very good, anybody tried their water-based varnish or urethane on guitars? They also seem to say that their shellac dries harder than the common alcohol-based shellac. I think luthiers who use varnish use Behlen Rockhard, how would the Target varnish compare? |
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| Author: | Tim McKnight [ Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:18 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=laurent] The Target Coating stuff looks very good, anybody tried their water-based varnish or urethane on guitars? [/QUOTE] I have a gallon of 9000 that I am trying to use up now. I won't be using it again anytime soon. If I shoot anymore WB it will be KTM9. |
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